Maram Stern has been fighting for the release of the
Israeli hostages for one year. Here, the World Jewish Congress’ top negotiator
explains how the Gulf States are helping and why Berlin is doing too little.
DER ZEIT: Mr. Stern, when we first spoke about Israel’s
hostages, you were on your way to Qatar. It was October 9, 2023. How are you
feeling now, after a year of negotiating?
MARAM STERN: Negotiating is not quite the right word.
Unlike the negotiator from Israel or the USA, I have neither leverage nor
anything to offer. As a representative of Judaism, I can only ask. If you ask
how I’m doing: I’ve just had knee surgery, but should I complain? I’m not
sitting in a Hamas tunnel, I’m in New York. I talk to UN representatives and
heads of state every day; it just doesn’t help.
ZEIT: That sounds bitter.
STERN: No, it’s the new Jewish normal! Since October
7, our world has revolved around terror and its consequences. An American
friend whose daughter just got married asked me: What can I do for the hostages
as the father of the bride? And when I was at a dinner for rabbis, the same
topic was discussed at every table.
STERN: Last fall, the World Jewish Congress, of which
you are Executive Vice President, opened an office in Rome, within sight of St.
Peter’s Basilica. Despite this, the Pope refused to receive the families of
Israeli hostages for weeks. Instead, he admonished Israel so often that even
critics of Israel in the Holy See now hope he will remain silent.
STERN: My goal is not for the Pope to say what I
would like to hear, just for us to talk. That also applies to Egyptians, Turks,
British, French … The most difficult thing is to keep the hostage issue
alive. People no longer want to hear about it. How do I bring it up with
Francis without boring him?
ZEIT: You could tell him about Hezbollah’s plan to
attack Israel again in the style of October 7 and take many more hostages.
STERN: You know, the military is not my field. The
World Jewish Congress (WJC) was founded in 1936 to defend Jewish communities
worldwide, not with weapons, but with words. Today we are present in 103
countries. But sometimes local Jews are so endangered that it’s better for me
to say nothing.
ZEIT: Which countries are you currently silent about?
STERN: Iran.
ZEIT: An 18-year-old Jew was executed there on
Monday. Human rights activists say he was attacked and fatally injured an
attacker in self-defense, which the court turned into murder.
STERN: The WJC,
as an umbrella organization for all Jews, stands up for individual victims of
persecution and clearly condemns it when Iran attacks Israel. Only I personally
do not interfere in Iran now.
ZEIT: Freed Israeli hostages report that Hamas is
torturing kidnapped children and cramming men and women into cages. What do you
know about those who are still missing?
STERN: Their situation is absolutely harrowing.
ZEIT: Like the UN, the World Jewish Congress has its
headquarters in New York. In October, the Anti-Defamation League, which is also
based there, published statistics on more than 10,000 antisemitic incidents in
the USA, the highest number ever documented in one year. Do you still give
visitors your office address?
STERN: Our address in New York is well known; there
are many consulates and NGO’s nearby. New York is also important for us because
it is home to the largest Jewish community outside Tel Aviv. There are six and
a half to seven million Jews in the United States, but recently, even in New
York, they hide their kippah under a baseball cap, and I hardly ever see women
wearing the Star of David necklace anymore.
ZEIT: Do you wear a kippah yourself?
STERN: No, I never have—I hope the good Lord
forgives me. I also pray less than I should. But I talk to God in my own way; otherwise
I wouldn’t have kept up my work for thirty years.
ZEIT: What have you been able to achieve for the
hostages over the past year?
STERN: Not enough. But I met partners all over the
world and spent 250 nights in hotels. I spoke with the Crown Prince and the
Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia several times, with the security staff of
Bahrain, with Emanuel Macron, with Spain’s Foreign Minister and with the new
Foreign Secretary of Great Britain, with Poland’s President Duda, with the
Prime Minister of Croatia, the Foreign Minister of Argentina and so on. I met [German]
Federal President Steinmeier and his staff several times, as well as a State Secretary
at the Federal Foreign Office whom I have known for a long time, and several
directors-general of the Federal Foreign Office.
ZEIT: After the “hostage deal” in November 2023, in
which almost 100 hostages were released, you told me: “I’m afraid that’s it
now.”
STERN: That was my gut feeling after many fruitless
talks. The fate of the hostages depresses me very much. I don’t know why, but I
take it personally. I always thought I could preserve a professional distance,
but I’ve realized that’s not true.
ZEIT: The World Jewish Congress also lost employees
on October 7 and immediately received calls from families of missing people
asking for help. And today?
STERN: Not a day goes by that I don’t get at least
one call. When I speak to the families, it’s a blow every time. I don’t know
who among the international players is really still doing anything for the
hostages. Everyone is pointing a finger at someone else. And if not even US
Secretary of State Blinken can help …
ZEIT: In addition to you as the representative of
Jewish interests, there are three hostage negotiators from the West, one for
the USA, one for Great Britain and one for the State of Israel. You met at the
Munich Security Conference. Have you ever spoken to Hamas yourself?
STERN: No. I have nothing to offer them; I could only
say, release the hostages. So I grasp at any straw.
ZEIT: Where were you first?
STERN: In the Gulf States. We know each other well; they have the most money, and I figure someone has to intervene at some point.
ZEIT: Before October 7, Qatar was the largest donor
to the Gaza Strip, the USA was the second largest, Germany the third largest.
How did you fare in Qatar now?
STERN: Qatar is often criticized in the West, but the
Qataris and Saudis are important partners for me. Bahrain too. I really place
hope in the Gulf States. The Qataris welcome the families of the hostages at
any time. In Qatar, I talk to the Emir, the Prime Minister, and the Foreign
Minister and the security advisors. The foreign minister helps me with the
Saudis; he was born in Frankfurt, and his mother is German. He speaks German
with me, often with a Hessian accent.
ZEIT: Parts of the Hamas leadership are said to be
based in Qatar. What do the Gulf States want?
STERN: To defuse the situation—and end up looking
like heroes. But it seems to me that they have no real influence over Hamas.
Otherwise something would have happened already; my feeling is that they can’t
do what they want.
ZEIT: You told me shortly after the hostage-taking
that you were running against closed doors that had previously been open. Who
did you mean?
STERN: Turkey, specifically Erdoğan. I had a good
relationship with him until October 7, but contact has broken off since October
8. He just insults us. He no longer makes a distinction between the Jews and
Israel, although he knows the difference.
ZEIT: Erdoğan has made political Islam strong. What
was the basis of your good relationship?
STERN: Erdoğan says what he thinks. With him, I
always knew where I was at. I prefer it when someone gets upset because they
disagree. Erdoğan keeps his word. It’s difficult to talk to people when I don’t
know what they think.
ZEIT: An example, please!
STERN: I wish the Chinese would take the hostage
crisis more seriously. In conversation, you just don’t feel that they are on
the ball.
ZEIT: Are you talking to the Russians?
STERN: No. I don’t want to be used in the war against
Ukraine. Russia and Ukraine have large Jewish communities; I can’t put them in
jeopardy. But Israel is talking to Russia.
ZEIT: What do you think of the Western arms embargoes
against Israel?
STERN: I’ll mention Spain; they always helped us
before October 7, that’s over. When I told the foreign minister that he could
do more for Israel, he turned me down. That hurt. But you get used to any pain.
ZEIT: You also went to see Macron about the arms
embargo. You asked for weapons, although you yourself are in favor of a quick
ceasefire.
STERN: I want a ceasefire for the Israelis. But
Israel needs weapons to defend itself. Macron, as a person, is on Israel’s side. He has half a million Jews in the country, but also six million Muslims. The
embargo was a sign to his people. That’s how politics works. Macron could do
otherwise, but he chooses not to.
ZEIT: From an Israeli perspective, would you have
liked to see Le Pen win the election? And how do you feel about the fact that
the political right in the West has recently been promising the most protection
for the Jewish state?
STERN: I hear that question all the time. Indeed, I
can subscribe to some of the AfD’s [Alternative for Germany, a far-right and
right-wing populist political party] statements on solidarity with Israel.
However, they are not doing this out of genuine solidarity with us Jews, but
out of hatred for Muslims. You can’t fight antisemitism with racism. As a child
of Holocaust survivors, I can’t vote for the AfD. My parents, born in Poland in
1923 and 1924, survived in camps and hiding places. I was born in 1955 and grew
up in Germany. We believed that antisemitism no longer stood a chance here.
ZEIT: Does the German Federal Foreign Office help you
now?
STERN: Yes, I often meet staff; we exchange ideas,
they are currently helping us in South Africa, where our communities are under
threat.
ZEIT: And Annalena Baerbock [Federal Minister for
Foreign Affairs of Germany]? One of her colleagues has now appeared wearing a
Palestinian scarf.
STERN: That shouldn’t happen to a professional
diplomat; but I always do get an appointment with the minister.
ZEIT: Hostage families praise Baerbock for being so
empathetic, unlike Netanyahu. Nevertheless, apparently at the instigation of
the Green party, the German government only supplied 32,449 euros worth of weapons
to Israel from January-August 2024, plus 14.4 million euros worth of armaments.
In comparison, Israel’s missile defense alone has cost around 1.4 billion
dollars since 7 October. What do you think of this “silent embargo”?
STERN: It shouldn’t be policy, given Germany ‘s special
responsibility towards Israel.
ZEIT: Have you discussed it with Baerbock?
STERN: Yes.
ZEIT: And?
STERN: Look, you either help or you don’t help.
Germany could undoubtedly help more.
ZEIT: Now the Bundestag wants a resolution on the
protection of Jewish life, but protests immediately arise. Were German reasons
of state and the promise “Never again” just an illusion?
STERN: I’ve been fed up with these clichés for a long
time. I hear them day in, day out. When it comes down to it, they mean nothing.
As a German, I expect much more from Germany.
ZEIT: What exactly?
STERN: No more money that is intended as aid for war
victims but ends up with Hamas.
ZEIT: The West says that if only Netanyahu had agreed
to a draft by the Americans, the hostages would have been freed long ago. Is
that right?
STERN: All I know is that Hamas is imposing
conditions that Israel’s government finds unacceptable.
ZEIT: And what does Benjamin Netanyahu say?
STERN: I do not talk to him—that’s a matter for the
boss. Our President, Ronald S. Lauder, does that.
ZEIT: It is said that you are very critical of
Netanyahu and his government.
STERN: A good relationship with Israel is important
for our organization. My personal preferences don’t count here. I don’t have to
agree with everything this government does. What counts for me: We Jews need
Israel as life insurance.
ZEIT: The World Jewish Congress has just rejected two
reports to the UN claiming that Israel is committing genocide against the
Palestinians.
STERN: The accusation is false. It ignores the terror
perpetrated by Hamas and demonizes Israel. This anti-Israel attitude is very
pronounced within the UN apparatus. The harsh reality in the Middle East
contradicts the idealism of many UN employees.
ZEIT: Do you argue with the UN Secretary-General?
STERN: Guterres is my main contact, I like him
personally, but I am disappointed. I know he can’t say what he thinks, that he
is under pressure and unable to speak freely, yet I feel he should have the
courage to refuse to make speeches he doesn’t stand behind.
ZEIT: Did you protest against the nomination of the
Palestinian relief organization UNRWA for the Nobel Peace Prize? UNRWA admits
that individual employees were involved in the attack on Israel.
STERN: Yes, I protested.
ZEIT: In Germany, Jews are now taking their children
out of school because they are being bullied.
STERN: Almost every Jewish community in the world is
afraid at the moment. Germany claims that Jews are safe here, but that’s not
true. I receive calls for help every day.
ZEIT: How do you put up with it?
STERN: I sleep. Sometimes I have nightmares, but I
work so much that I am able to sleep.
ZEIT: Is there anything you avoid now?
STERN: Receptions. I can’t stand the small talk.
ZEIT: What do you hope for from the US election?
STERN: That whoever becomes president will prevail
against Hamas.
ZEIT: And who is your most important ally in the
fight for the hostages?
STERN: The good Lord. People repress and forget. They
play it off and blame others, but you can rely on God.
This interview was originally published in German in Die
Zeit.
